That’s what I’m doing on this so-called “Christian militia” thing out of southeastern Michigan. And believe me, it’s hard even for me to do — There have been so many confusing twists and turns in this matter since the news broke yesterday.
Here’s some reading material for you and its relevance:
(1) The Detroit News, yesterday:
One of the Hutaree members called a Michigan militia leader for assistance Saturday after federal agents had already began their raid, Lackomar said, but the militia member — who is of Islamic decent and had heard about the threats — declined to offer help. That Michigan militia leader is now working with federal officials to provide information on the Hutaree member for the investigation, Lackomar said Sunday.
(snip)
Dawud Walid, executive director of the Council on Islamic-American Relations of Michigan, made an announcement Sunday during the group’s 10th anniversary banquet about receiving a call from a network journalist about the alleged threat against Muslims.
(2) AP, yesterday:
Michael Lackomar, a spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, said one of his team leaders got a frantic phone call Saturday evening from members of Hutaree, a Christian militia group, who said their property in southwest Michigan was being raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
“They said they were under attack by the ATF and wanted a place to hide,” Lackomar said. “My team leader said, ‘no thanks.’ “
The team leader was cooperating with the FBI on Sunday, Lackomar said. He said SMVM wasn’t affiliated with Hutaree, which states on its Web site to be “prepared to defend all those who belong to Christ and save those who aren’t.”
“We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ,” the group’s Web site said. “Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment.
(3) WXYZ, the ABC affiliate in Detroit, last night:
In a federal indictment, the government says the group is an anti-government, extremist organization that planned war with the United States. It is also alleged that the group wanted to kill members of law enforcement.
Federal charges include Seditious Conspiracy, Attempt to Use Weapons of Mass Destruction, Teaching/Demonstrating Use of Explosive Materials and two counts of Carrying, Using and Posessing a Firearm During and in Relation to a Crime of Violence.
The nine people named in the indictment are as follows:
David Brian Stone, 45
Tina Stone, 44
Joshua Matthew Stone, 21
David Brian Stone, Jr., 19
Joshua Clough, 28
Michael Meeks, 40
Thomas Piatek, 46
Kristopher Sickles, 27
Jacob Ward, 33
The leader of the group is David Stone Sr., and is known by group members as “Captain Hutaree.”
His ex-wife, Donna Stone, talked with Action News about Stone.
“He’s got a temper. He can get radical. He wants things done his way,” Donna Stone told Action News.
Investigators say group members have been meeting regularly to conduct military-style training in order to prepare for war with the government, law enforcement and federal workers.
Brittany Bryant, the woman who is engaged to David Stone Jr. – son of the group’s leader, says the group isn’t dangerous.
“I don’t think they’re dangerous. If they wanted to do something they would have already done something,” says Brittany Bryant.
This is why I don’t think they are has half as dangerous as alleged, if at all. Why would a 19-year old young guy, engaged to be married, want to run off and spark Armageddon?
(4) The Detroit Free Press, last night:
The group’s Web site says that it is “preparing for the end time battles to keep the testimony of Jesus Christ alive.” The group’s logo is a cross with the initials CCR, which stand for Colonial Christian Republic. In one of its videos, a group of men in military gear take down a burning United Nations flag and replace it with their flag, which displays a cross.
On its Web site, the Michigan Militia denied involvement in the raids.
“Neither MICHIGANMILITIA.COM nor the SMVM (Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia) have been raided by the FBI. We do nothing illegal,” reads a statement on michiganmilitia.com.
Michael Lackomar, a spokesman for the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia, said one of his team leaders got a frantic phone call Saturday evening from members of Hutaree, who said their property in southwest Michigan was being raided by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
“They said they were under attack by the ATF and wanted a place to hide,” Lackomar said. “My team leader said, ‘No thanks.’?”
The team leader was cooperating with the FBI on Sunday, Lackomar said. He said SMVM wasn’t affiliated with Hutaree.
(5) Robert Spencer, at Jihad Watch, last night:
Christian militia group arrested, allegedly threatened Muslims, Hamas-linked CAIR plays victim card
These raids and the alleged Christian character of the militia, as well as its targeting Muslims, is a mainstream media dream come true — a few years back the BBC featured an inversion-of-reality drama about Christians beheading Muslims, and now, lo and behold, it seems to have come to life. For years to come this “Hutaree” will be thrown in the face of anyone who takes note of jihad activity in the United States and around the world, as if this group in itself balances and equals the innumerable Islamic groups that are waging armed jihad all around the world today.
The point will be the same as the one Tim McVeigh has had to shoulder alone all these years (even though he wasn’t really a Christian at all, and did not justify the Oklahoma City bombing by reference to Christian teaching): that every religion has its “extremists,” and that therefore it would be bad form to subject Islam to greater critical scrutiny, and Muslims to greater law enforcement scrutiny. Everyone does it, don’t you see? Al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hizballah, Jemaah Islamiyah, al-Shabaab, and on and on and on — yes, but the Hutaree!
Meanwhile, why doesn’t the Detroit News include in this story quotations from Christian leaders explaining how they condemn this “Christian militia,” and that Christianity doesn’t condone such violence, and that these militiamen have twisted and hijacked their peaceful faith? After all, they always include such quotes from Muslim leaders in every story about Islamic jihad terror activity. Why is the practice different in this case?
Yet instead of the mainstream moderate Christians (heh) that we would have every reason to expect the Detroit News to feature in this story, Hamas-linked CAIR shows up toward the end of this article, playing the victim card with gusto, so that as the arrests were announced, “audible gaps” (yikes!) sounded in their 10th anniversary banquet hall. The claiming of victim status, complete with gasping prospective victims, is artful — and of course the Detroit News says nothing about CAIR’s links to Hamas, the jihad-related arrests and convictions of several of its officials, and the rest of this group’s unsavory record. A responsible reporter might have asked Dawud Walid if he thought this alleged Christian militia group was a “backlash” after the sharp increase in jihad terror activity in the U.S. in the last year, but why should the Detroit News have responsible reporters on staff when no other mainstream media outlet does?
And as for the FBI and the JTTF, are they investigating the Muslim camps around the country where firearms and paramilitary training are known to be going on? Are they doing so with the same energy and resources that they obviously have devoted to the investigation of this Christian militia? If not, why not? If the allegations against this group are true, they richly deserve to be raided and arrested and shut down. But there have been allegations made against Islamic compounds in the U.S. that are quite similar, and nothing has been done. Why is that?
As an aside, Timothy McVeigh was an Odinist.
Here’s the confusing part — They say they wanted to kill Muslims. But then they run to a Muslim member of a competing (and evidently more legitimate) militia in the area asking for help, which he denies. What gives?
(6) Ex-cop Paul Huebl, today:
Detroit, MI — Nine people are in custody on allegations that they are part of The Hutaree Militia that they conspired to murder members of local law enforcement agencies.
Indictments were unsealed this morning that were laid out with well-crafted press releases providing the FBI’s basis for making the raids, seizing property and arresting the accused. I can’t help but smell a big rat at the top of the Obama Justice department.
It’s very simple, the Obama administration knows they have virtually zero support from state and local police. They need to drive a wedge between those Americans resisting the Marxist inspired changes and the local police. This plot along with the overblown press releases may be total fabrication of a government paid snitch.
As for the group I suspect they are a bunch of religious zealots that like guns and play dress-up as they run around in the woods. If they were a real threat they would never had submitted to arrest by the metrosexuals that make up today’s FBI. So far, there is no evidence of a single violent act by this group. That’s hardly the profile of a dangerous group bent on killing cops.
The funeral thing is confusing. It is alleged that Hutaree members wanted to kill cops who were at a funeral. But it also says that the raid too place at about the time of a Hutaree funeral of a member who died of natural causes. Which is it?
(7) The Detroit News, today. No link b/c it mentions the name of a judge:
Indictment: Hutaree militia planned to kill law officer, attack the funeral procession
Detroit — Nine members of a Lenawee County-based militia group were planning to “levy war” against the United States and “oppose by force” the nation’s government, according to an indictment unsealed this morning in U.S. District Court in Detroit.
Seven of the defendants of the “Hutaree” militia appeared briefly this morning in U.S. District Court in Detroit and were ordered held without bond until Wednesday, when bond hearings will be held. Assistant U.S. Attorney Ronald Waterstreet said he wants all the defendants held pending trial.
The five-count indictment alleges that between August 2008 and the present, the defendants were trying to use bombs and other weapons to oppose the U.S. government.
They had plans to kill a local law enforcement official and, once officers from across the country came to the funeral, to attack the funeral procession, the indictment alleges.
“This is an example of radical and extremist fringe groups which can be found throughout our society,” said Andrew Arena, FBI special agent in charge. “The FBI takes such extremist groups seriously, especially those who would target innocent citizens and the law enforcement officers who protect the citizens of the United States.”
The eight men and one woman are members of the Hutaree, identified as an “anti-government extremist organization” in the indictment, and each faces three to five charges, including sedition, attempts to use weapons of mass destruction, teaching/demonstrating use of explosive materials and two counts of carrying weapons in relation to a crime of violence.
The Adrian-based group has said it is training in modern combat techniques for a prophesized battle with the anti-Christ.
Accused are: David Brian Stone, 45; his wife, Tina Stone, 44; his son, Joshua Matthew Stone, 21, all three of Clayton; and his other son, David Brian Stone Jr., 19, of Adrian. Also accused are Joshua Clough, 28, of Blissfield; Michael Meeks, 40 of Manchester; Thomas Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind.; Kristopher Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; and Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio.
Federal authorities say they acted as a Lenawee County militia group called the Hutaree and viewed local, state, and federal law enforcement as the “brotherhood,” their enemy, and have been preparing to engage them in armed conflict.
If convicted, the suspects could face up to life in prison, the maximum penalty on the attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction. The seditious conspiracy charge carries a maximum prison term of 20 years, as does the teaching the use of explosives charge. The possession of a firearm charge carries a minimum penalty of five years in prison.
According to federal authorities, the group had identified a Michigan law enforcement officer as a potential target. Their idea was to kill that officer and when law enforcement officials from around the country came to the area for the funeral, they would attack the procession with improvised explosive devices and “explosively formed projectiles.” They hoped the attack would serve as a “catalyst for a more wide-spread uprising against the government.”
A scouting mission was planned for April and, if someone had stumbled upon the mission, the Hutaree decided they could be killed, according to the indictment.
It was this mission that prompted the raids, said Barbara McQuade, the U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan.
“Because the Hutaree had planned a covert reconnaissance operation for April which had the potential of placing an unsuspecting member of the public at risk, the safety of the public and of the law enforcement community demanded intervention at this time,” she said in a prepared statement.
In February, the elder David Brian Stone had tried to go to Kentucky for a so-called summit of militia groups convened by Stone. He intended to develop better communications, cooperation and coordination with the groups. However, poor weather precluded him from attending.
Before going, however, Stone solicited a person he felt could develop four anti-personnel IEDs to take with him to the summit.
Later in February, the group conducted training operations in Lenawee County to plan for the reconnaissance mission.
The indictment also says Stone had identified a law enforcement unit near his residence as a potential target, although the indictment does not say who.
Their goal was to “intimidate and demoralize law enforcement, diminishing their ranks and rendering them ineffective,” according to the indictment. The group then intended to use the incident to spark a “war” against law enforcement, using bombs, ambushes and prepared fighting positions.
Donna Stone, the ex-wife of David Stone Sr., said her husband’s growing radicalism was a factor in their breakup. She said the couple was married about 10 years ago and divorced about three years ago. David Stone Jr. is her son by another man and is not David Stone Sr.’s natural son, she said. Joshua Stone, who is still at large, is David Stone Sr.’s son with another woman, Donna Stone said.
“You pray as a family, you stay together as a family,” Stone said. “When he got carried away, when he went from handguns to big guns, it’s like, now I’m done.”
Members of the self-described Christian militia were arrested in weekend raids in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana and Illinois.
(snip)
Mike Lackomar of Michigan-Militia.com said he heard from other militia members that the FBI targeted the Hutaree after its members made threats against Islamic organizations.
Although there had been reports the Hutaree may have targeted Muslims, there is no mention in the indictment of any threats against them.
On top of that, the indictment itself does not specifically mention Christianity, or use the adjective “Christian,” anywhere in its text. I think that’s by design. So this Muslim thing might have been a wild rumor.
I get the feeling that this ex-wife is involved in the raid and prosecution somehow. Vindictive cops and prosecutors always target ex-husbands or ex-wives on their way out of the marriage to fish for evidence. Sometimes, the spouses even “rat” on each other out of spite.
How is a homemade bomb a “weapon of mass destruction?” I guess the Yankee government has to define a WMD so loosely so they could claim with a straight face that Saddam Hussein had them.
(8) AP, this afternoon:
The wife of one of the defendants described Hutaree as a small group of patriotic, Christian buddies who were just doing survival training.
“It consisted of a dad and two of his sons and I think just a couple other close friends of theirs,” said Kelly Sickles, who husband, Kristopher, was among those charged. “It was supposed to be a Christian group. Christ-like, right, so why would you think that’s something wrong with that, right?”
Sickles said she came home Saturday night to find her house in Sandusky, Ohio, in disarray. Agents seized the guns her husband collected as a hobby and searched for bomb-making materials, she said, but added: “He doesn’t even know how to make a bomb. We had no bomb material here.”
She said she couldn’t believe her 27-year-old husband could be involved in anything violent.
“It was just survival skills,” she said. “That’s what they were learning. And it’s just patriotism. It’s in our Constitution.”
One of the defendants expressed anti-tax views during his Monday court hearing.
Thomas W. Piatek, a truck driver from Whiting, Ind., told a federal judge he could not afford an attorney because he was “getting raped on property taxes.”
The mother of another defendant, 33-year-old Jacob Ward, told police in Huron, Ohio, last summer that family members took away his two guns – an AK-47 rifle and a semiautomatic pistol – because she thought he needed mental health treatment.
Ward told police that he needed to protect himself from members of a crime family that was keeping him from his girlfried, according to Huron police records obtained by the AP. He also said he was going to meet with the CIA.
Seven of the defendants in court in Michigan asked to be represented by public defenders. The eighth had a public defender appointed in Indiana.
You will also see in this AP article that the raid used an armored vehicle tank. Kinda much for nine people that willingly surrendered, isn’t it?
(9) I had the URL, but lost it. However, I found this similar one from mlive.com, which corroborates most of what I read in the story that I lost — The FBI announced the raid at a CAIR banquet in Detroit that featured JESSE JACKSON as a keynote speaker. As if eight white men and one white woman were presented as sacrificial lambs on the altar of Jesse Jackson. That’s the same Jesse Jackson who just a few years ago wanted to cut off the nuts of the FBI’s and the HLS’s current boss.
My guess, after putting all these disparate pieces together? It’s all a big to-do about mostly nothing, but meant to bolster the SPLC and the CAIR, both friends of the Obama administration. Don’t forget, the SPLC’s fund raising has been in the dumps in the last year because of the Madoff scandal. And, as you know from reading this blog, Federal law enforecment and paranoia-industrial complex fund raising hustles like the SPLC and ADL have a symbiotic relationship. The CAIR’s interest in this is in spreading the blame over terrorism, as in, “See, there are Christian extremists, too!” Meanwhile, this non-story almost distracted you from what happened in Moscow today. And from what happened in Arizona this weekend, which pretty much ends John McCain’s political career. And from REAL threats to law enforcement from the Barrio Azteca Mexican prison gang in El Paso.
I predict that most or all of these charges against the Hutaree will eventually be dropped over time.
That said, and I’m going to operate under the assumption that Hutaree was as apocalyptic as it is claimed they are, (and these next paragraphs aren’t going to win me any friends), this is the problem with letting any and every schmuck read and/or interpret the Bible. Why is it that good Catholics and Lutherans, who have to do a little more than open up a cracker jack box to get a theology degree, don’t believe in this end times/Revelation bullshit? Let me level with you — There will be no such thing as a literal physical second coming of Jesus Christ. No rapture, no end times. No anti-Christ. Revelation is not a book to be taken literally — It is a description of a symbolic and spiritual battle of the past. Key words there — IN THE PAST. In other words, Revelation already happened, and happened in a realm that is not of our physical and corporeal awareness. The notion that Revelation describes future events in the physical realm is pretty new to Christianity. John Nelson Darby — use your favorite internet search engine to look him up. Ever hear the phrase “high Protestant?” It refers to Protestant denominations of Christianity which have either a highly ordered liturgy, a well-established educational infrastructure for this theology students, or both. In other words, not the roll around in the pews and sing songs fundagelical screwballs that run out and start churches like “Church of the Now,” with every ass-ugly fluorescent color paint in the paint store adorning its building which is an eyesore along Interstate 20 east of Atlanta. Not referring to that cesspool of corruption here in Fenton, either. Joyce Meyer. Joyce Meyer? Phooey. My ass. Go ask Chris Coleman’s wife and kids about that wonderful Joyce Meyer cabal. Oh, I forgot. You can’t. Too much money going through that joint for it to be a real church. Remember, ye cannot serve both God and mammon (money) at the same time. (Maybe Christ ought to come back and start whacking over some moneychanger tables at all these Joyce Meyer charismatic theology-lite outfits. He could start there, go next to that Church on the Rock hustle in St. Peters, then head on down to Atlanta to paint over that Church of the Now with colors that actually make sense and fit into their natural environment. Then again, I’m not one to tempt God.) High Protestants believe in Revelation as symbolic, spiritual and past. The fundagelical screwballs are all sitting around for Christ to rapture them up to Heaven. All the while, they’re doing nothing to save the country from its economic and cultural rot-gut (which they would otherwise be doing), except they’ve been neutralized by warmed-over Darbyism.
Look around you, people — This is as good as it’s going to get.
For the record, I was baptized into the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod, but never confirmed. I toyed with returning and undergoing adult confirmation, but two things keep me away from the LCMS — First, its belief that the Papacy is the anti-Christ. Second, I just can’t grok Lutheranism in general — especially its dogged opposition to works and dogged embrace of Grace, such that a proper Lutheran believes that actively accepting Christ is a “work” that can’t possibly save you — Only God can determine who gets in and who doesn’t — Nothing you can do can change God’s mind. In other words, you can out and rob, steal, rape and murder all you want, and God can still let you into Heaven. You can even reject Christ, and God might still let you in. I mean, why Christ at all? Why did God go through all that trouble about two thousand years ago if He would turn right around and say that it doesn’t even matter if you believe in Him or not? I can ill imagine a deity like that would be so insouciant about his Son. At least the Catholic Church demands that you do something for salvation, at the very least, try to obey the Ten Commandments. I’m about this close to converting to Catholicism — The hurdle that held me back before was the nature of the Viceroy. I thought that Catholics believed that every word out of the mouth of a Catholic priest was the Word of God, and therefore, if Cardinal Mahony in Los Angeles advocates for open borders with Mexico, that must mean God is for open borders with Mexico. Turns out I got some bad information from an unreliable source on that matter — The Priesthood is the Vicar of Christ, but they are only the Vicar of Christ when it comes to spiritual matters. In other words, Cardinal Mahony is expressing a personal political opinion on immigration, not the Will of God.
Martin Luther was a lot of things, and one of those was a theological elitist. Luther never really intended to break away from the Church, except that public hostility toward the Church in Wittenberg and the northern Germanies was so strong that the people practically drug Luther into breaking away after they found out that Luther had all these frustrations with Rome. The only reason they knew is that some time during the night when the 95 Theses were nailed to the door of Luther’s Cathedral, a couple of townsfolk who knew how to read Latin (the 95 Theses were written in Latin — nailing paper statements to the door written in Latin was the way that Catholic theological intellectuals communicated with each other in those days — proving that Luther’s 95 Theses weren’t meant for the masses), read them and told everyone in town that Martin Luther had 95 beefs with the Catholic Church. You know how that turned out. I get the feeling that if Martin Luther would have known that his revolution would have led to horse dung cleaner-upper caliber of people reading the Bible to start churches where parishioners handle snakes, and would have led to poor liquored-up bastards in rural Michigan dressing in in funny uniforms and rearing themselves for some sort of Holy War (allegedly), based on a book of the Bible which Luther halfway thought wasn’t even truly Divinely inspired and didn’t even belong in the Greater Bible, he would have ran back to the Pope, indulgences in hand, begging for forgiveness.
Does this mean that I think the Hutaree members deserved what it got? No. If they didn’t do it, then they didn’t deserve this treatment. I would suggest to them that if/when you are ever set free, that you make the quickest tracks to the nearest Catholic or Lutheran Church, so they can debrainwash you of all that ignorant end times bullshit. (Whether you do that before or after you head over to AA for help with that other apparent problem of yours is up to you.) The only non-high Protestant you should give the time of day to is R.C. Sproul, who just happens to believe in Revelation as physical prophecy, but is a master of Aristotelian logic, and an intellectual delight to hear.
UPDATE 10 PM: Here are the mugshots:
Vast conspiracy. Yeah, right. Spare me. These eight couldn’t conspiracy a wet mop to save their lives.
Now it’s getting more and more clear as time goes on what’s happening here — This was nothing more than an extended family of hoosiers (St. Louis definition) who were professional arm curlers. They owned a few guns, some nails, about five pairs of used camos from the surplus store, and a very misread Bible was lying around. I’m guessing there was some FBI shit disturber involved in the middle of this in some way, perhaps from the aforementioned rival militia in that part of Michigan.
Fox News Radio just reported that the “leader” was getting ready to marry some woman, and the woman has told the media that most Hutaree members were under the age of 25. The significance of that, or even the truth of that, I don’t know.
UPDATE 3/30 7:30 AM: Fair and balanced? Phooey. Fox News, both radio and TV, are still running with this as their lead story as of this morning. I suspect it has something to do with Shep Smith practically being Mark Potok’s new common law wife. I, however, had this all figured out as of last night.
UPDATE 3/30 8 PM: Now we’re getting even more pieces to the puzzle.
WSJ:
An undercover agent played a role in the investigation that led to Monday’s indictments. Grand jury testimony by a law enforcement officer referred to an “undercover FBI agent” who worked on the case. The FBI declined to comment, but infiltration is a common tactic for law-enforcement officials targeting domestic militia groups.
Translated into English, this means shit disturber and agent provocateur.
AP:
Federal authorities had been monitoring members of a Michigan-based Christian militia for some time but were forced to “take them down” over the weekend after learning of an imminent threat against police, the U.S. attorney leading the prosecution said Tuesday.
Barbara McQuade’s comments came three days after eight members of a small group of “Christian warriors” were arrested in several Midwestern states and a day after the FBI nabbed a ninth suspect, Joshua Stone, following a standoff at a trailer in rural Michigan.
“The time had come that we needed to arrest them and take them down,” McQuade told The Associated Press in an interview at her office.
Miss McQuade is indeed the U.S. Attorney for Eastern Michigan. Ergo, President Obama directly appointed her, because one or both of Michigan’s U.S. Senators, both Democrats, passed her name up to Obama as a “good candidate” for the job, i.e. a hack who needs her palms greased.
Now the picture is getting even clearer. It looks something like this — Obama needs a card to play against the right after HCR. McQuade tells him that she’s got an asset inside a group of trailer trash in her district. Obama tells her to make something happen. She calls her asset and instructs him or her to get something done, so she can “take them down,” as in get one of them drunk enough to mouth off about a violent conspiracy. He or she accomplishes this that, gets it on tape, and calls McQuade. FBI/ATF into the trailer park within minutes.
For what it’s worth, CNN:
Members of a militia charged with plotting to kill police were not Christian or a militia, a man acquainted with the group said Tuesday.
“This is a group that I would classify as neither a militia or a Christian group,” said Michael Lackomar, a member of the Southeast Michigan Volunteer Militia. “They’re really a fringe group outside of anything we do.
“They’re more of a private army or a terrorist organization or really just a criminal organization.”
SMVM is the rival group group that Hutaree called for help as the raid started, but the SMVM rejected. The SMVM also has as Muslim member, as you can read in the first item from yesterday.
UPDATE 3/31 2 PM:
(Yes, I know I said no posting on my b-day. However, these are just updates.)
CNN:
McQuade emphasized that the arrests are not an attack on militia groups in general. “In Michigan, we have militia groups that are peaceful, that are exercising their right to bear arms,” she said. “We have no problem with those groups.”
Likely story. Why don’t I hear this line out of the mouth of Mark Potok?
AP:
“David would preach out of the Bible,” said Donna Stone, who said she was married to David Brian Stone for about six years. “He would start at the beginning of Genesis and go to Revelations. He didn’t get into Revelations because we didn’t agree on it. David said it was supposed to be different. He had his own views. That’s when I thought it was time for me to go.”
Now, you see there? A family can’t agree on the meaning of one book, much less an entire religion, or even some wholesale denominations. I would have thought about that before I would have (allegedly) run out and (allegedly) tried to start a Manson-style or Cloward-Piven-style effort to “bring it all down,” based on one person’s (and only one person’s) interpretation. I have to say it again — We wouldn’t have these problems if we left the theology to the trained and highly educated theologians. Would you pay attention to my theories about brain surgery? Hint: I’m not a neurosurgeon, and I don’t hold an advanced degree in the field.
ABC has discovered:
The parents, David Stone Sr. and his wife, Tina, were always very polite, although he always seemed like he had drank too much coffee,” said Spurgeon.
“David just always seemed really hyper, like, calm down,” said Spurgeon.
Wow, coffee. (Does this mean that the Coffee Party will welcome him?) I can’t find the URL, but according to it (and it was from an MSM source), this family wasn’t into alcohol, in spite of my previous snark. They were actually more like teetotalers. However, if it’s true, I don’t think it discredits my theory about provocation.
Laura Ingraham had on her show today the “National Field Coordinator” of the Center for New Community, that being one Eric Ward. She implied that she and Ward would debate over this militia thing, but it didn’t turn out that way — the only people Ward had a beef with by name was Pat Buchanan and Congressman Paul Broun (R-GA), and the only non-person he cited by name with the tone of disgust was the blog aggregator Alternative Right, and went on to denounce its “paleo-conservatism.” My only disagreement with Laura Ingraham before and during this debate was that she portrayed the Chicago-based CNC as some sort of “community organizer” or “community agitator” group similar to ACORN. I think the better analogy is that the CNC is a regional (Great Lakes) analogue to the Southern Poverty Law Center. You know how the saying goes, monkey see, monkey do. When it became perfectly clear that there was a mountain of money to be made scaring rich liberal mostly Jewish and largely elderly men and women (i.e. ones that were actual Holocaust survivors or have a living memory of it), that the righties were just over the next rise, about to come snatch them up and throw them into gas chambers, the only way to stop this was to dump bags of money on Morris Dees, a lot of people wanted in on that hustle. The ADL had to follow suit, largely because Dees and Co. hustled money from a lot of ADL members, and a dollar that an ADL member gave to the SPLC was a dollar not given to the ADL. The Center for New Community is merely a regional SPLC-style paranoia-industrial complex outfit. A money hustle, not community agitators, por favor. You think Mr. Ward is a “national field director” only out of the “goodness” of his “heart?” The money to pay him has to come from somewhere! However acidic you think is the rhetoric coming from the SPLCs and the CNCs at present, it’s only going to get worse — They all compete for the same money, and that pot has done nothing but shrink after the Madoff scandal. I tend to think that his Hutaree deal is the SPLC pulling Obama’s strings to pull the FBI’s strings to pull the U.S. Attorney’s strings to pull an “informant’s” strings to create a pretext for SPLC fund raising.
Blackhawk Helicopters were used in the raid. Those are the so-called “black” helicopters, though they don’t need to be painted black. The only time they’re painted black is if the operation demands the maximum of covertness, as in looking for a dope field. The photo on Drudge at the time of this writing above the story is of a Blackhawk helicopter that is painted the standard green/gray color.
Seditious conspiracy is one of the official charges. Doesn’t the United States have to be in a Congressionally-declared State of War for sedition to be available to the U.S. Attorneys? And wouldn’t “sedition” or the inchoate allegation of conspiracy thereof necessitate those charged with it allegedly bolstering the morale of the Congressionally-declared enemy? I can’t remember who or where, but the U.S. Attorneys have charged someone within the last few weeks, it was either an actual Islamic terroristical boogie-woogie, or some white left-wing loonie bird who ran over to Crapistan to join with them, with treason. Same question applies. If the Congressional resolutions passed within days after 9/11 are the functional equivalent of a declared state of war, such that treason statues are available to the Federal prosecutors, then this means that they could have strung up Murtha, Durbin and Kerry for sedition.
UPDATE 4/1: NYT bombshell (no pun intended). Turns out the rival militia was the one who alerted the authorities, and we have an explanation behind its member that is a Muslim:
But [Hutaree's] biggest and most surprising adversary was practically next door: the local branch of the Michigan Militia.
From a distance, the two might seem like peas in a pod: both wear fatigues or camouflage, train in the woods with heavy weaponry and believe in threats to liberty from Washington.
But here on the ground the distinctions were crucial…
(snip)
…The crucial moment of that tension came Saturday night when one of the Stone family members — desperate and on the run from the law — called the local militia commander, Matt Savino, and begged for help in getting guns or shelter. Mr. Savino offered neither, not only refusing to help but in fact calling the State Police, who passed the call to the F.B.I.
“This was a new situation for us, and we did what we thought was right,” Mr. Savino said.
The strict Christian dogma espoused by the Hutaree does not fly as well these days either, at least in Adrian militia circles. Mr. Savino said that he converted to Islam in the late 1990s after a soul-searching separation from the Lutheran faith he had grown up with, and that he believed that he was the only Muslim in the militia.
Let the Lutherans for f’n ISLAM? What the fuck’s wrong with you, man? Ever hear of 9/11? I started out as a Lutheran, too, and did a lot of soul-searching myself. But I certainly wasn’t going to turn my back on my Lord and Savior and run off and join the real terrorists just because I had some doctrinal beef with the church in which I was baptized. He’s still a Muslim now, and is just as white as yours truly. You gotta wonder about the sanity of a white American right-winger who not only converted to Islam at a time when the real Muslims were ramping up their terrorist actions and plots against the United States, and remained one even after 9/11. I can rationalize (but not justify) the screwball white left from San Francisco that does it, the Johnny Jihad types like John Walker Lindh. But a white American ex-Lutheran right-winger in Middle America? Come on. This has got to be an April Fools joke.
If the M/M wanted to put up a strict wall of separation between its people playing with guns and organized religion, that’s fine. As a matter of fact, if I ran one, I, too, would maintain such a wall, not only between it and religion, but also politics and (in spite of myself) race. I’m just uncomfortable with the concept of crossing heavy firepower with religion or ideology — Look at how that turned out in centuries past, even among white people, even among white Christians. If my hypothetical members wanted to talk about their faith and spirituality, or their political beliefs, fine. But they wouldn’t be using any of the organization’s guns to make people adhere to a certain faith or adopt a certain worldview. Leave that shit at the door before you pick up the guns, and pick it back up on the way out but don’t take the guns, if you know what I mean. Right-wing Christian militias? That should be an oxymoron.
UPDATE 4/2 1 PM: Lo and behold. The Toledo Blade:
Most of the indicted militia members accused of being anti-government extremists have active voting records, a check with area voter registration offices showed yesterday.
One is a registered Democrat, and the party affiliations of the rest could not be determined.
Jacob J. Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio, voted as a Democrat in the 2004 and 2008 primary elections. He also voted in 10 other elections since 2000. Party affiliation in Ohio is determined by which party’s ballot they requested in the most recent primary election.
Who were the five major contestants in those two Democrat Presidential primary seasons? Let’s see. There’s Howard Scream, John F’n Papercut Purple Heart Ketchup Man Kerry (who served in Vietnam), The Breck Girl (retired from politics to spend more time with his families), Mrs. Bill Clinton, and last and definitely least, The Good King Hopeychanger Himself. Ohio’s own Dennis Kookcinich was a minor gadfly in both 2004 and 2008. To think — Mr. Ward had to have voted for at least one of these individuals.
Also from the Blade (no link b/c it mentions the name of a Federal judge), we have an answer about the funeral paradox:
Members of a Midwest Christian militia accused of conspiring to overthrow the government were arrested after the FBI lured them to a warehouse to attend a phony memorial service, where they would be unarmed, Michigan’s chief federal agent said yesterday. The ruse Saturday in Ann Arbor was part of a series of weekend raids in several states that resulted in the indictment of nine people in the alleged plot, officials said. “We basically set up a scenario where we were able to draw them all to one location,” Andrew Arena, head of the FBI in Detroit, told the Associated Press. “And the reason we did that was to obviously get them away from their weapons.”
One more thing, but before you watch this, let me warn you: You’ll never get back these five minutes of your life. (Not to mention the nudity and cussing.) Maybe “Pale Horse” was more apt than we know. It also makes me doubt that these people were teetotalers — You’ve got to be either drunk, high or both to do this in front of a camera.
UPDATE 4/2 2 PM: The NYT article that I referenced yesterday alludes to the dichotomy between the millenarians like the Hutaree and the constitutionalists like the M/M, and their distaste toward each other.
As an aside, through reading some of these articles about the Hutaree “plot,” I read one name that I haven’t heard anything from or about in several months’ of Sundays, and that being Mark Pitcavage. He’s now some hack with the ADL, (which makes you wonder when Ed Sebesta’s ship is ever going to come in), and in case you don’t know who he is or what he’s about, let me put it to you this way — Mark Potok might as well be Mark Korenke compared to Mark Pitcavage. If Potok is the asshole, then Pitcavage is the actual shit.
UPDATE 4/17: The mainline newspaper in Ann Arbor, Michigan and NPR have various stories that allude to the same thing, that both assets for the G-Men and a spy for the SMVM both infiltrated the Hutaree, the SMVM infiltration happened before the FBI/ATF. Whoever the gumshoe for the SMVM is, he or she is cooperating with the Feds. Is it possible that the SMVM person was the agent provocateur here instead of the FBI or ATF asset?
CBS reports that Nazi propaganda, crack and steroids were taken off in the Hutaree raid. Hmm, crack. Explains that video I linked to above on April 2. Steroids? Two words: Mark McGwire. Two more words: Barry Bonds. Two more words: Alex Rodriguez.
UPDATE 4/18: Kristopher Sickles tells the AP in a hoosegow interview that he was totally unaware of any dastardly plots involving the Hutaree, especially none of the sort that the U.S. Attorneys allege.
One can’t use his ignorance as exculpatory evidence in this matter, because he might have been totally unaware what was going on around him, with his being molested by the dildo mallet and all.
UPDATE 4/28: The Feds case is starting to fall apart.
Toledo Blade (no link for the obvious reason):
DETROIT – An FBI agent who led the investigation of nine Michigan militia members charged with trying to launch war against the federal government couldn’t recall many details of the two-year probe yesterday during questioning by defense lawyers.
Even the judge who must decide whether to release the nine until trial was puzzled.
“I share the frustrations of the defense team … that she doesn’t know anything,” U.S. District Judge [*****] said after agent Leslie Larsen confessed she hadn’t reviewed her notes recently and couldn’t remember specific details of the case.
Judge [*****] is hearing an appeal of another judge’s order that has kept members of so-called Hutaree militia in jail since their arrest in late March.
The indictment says the nine planned to kill police officers as a steppingstone to a widespread uprising against the federal government.
Defense lawyers, however, say their clients are being punished for being outspoken.
Prosecutors fought to keep Ms. Larsen off the witness stand, saying the defendants had no legal right to question her.
But the judge said the agent’s appearance was appropriate because the burden is on defense lawyers to show their clients won’t be a threat to the public if released.
The nine lawyers asked specific questions about each defendant. Ms. Larsen said she had not listened entirely to certain recordings made by an undercover agent who infiltrated the group.
She said that because they were still being examined, she didn’t know if weapons seized by investigators last month were illegal.
At other times, Ms. Larsen couldn’t answer questions because she said she hadn’t reviewed investigative reports.
Defense lawyer William Swor asked if the No. 1 defendant, Hutaree leader David Stone, had ever instructed anyone to make a bomb.
“I can’t fully answer that question,” the agent replied.
Unlike most Federal officials, who can’t remember anything because they won’t want to remember anything (read: Hillary Rodham Clinton and the cattle futures grand jury testimony), Miss Larsen doesn’t remember anything because there is hardly anything to remember. Within months, the U.S. Attorneys will probably drop charges one at a time. Since crack was found, at least one of them will go up the river for that.
UPDATE 5/3: They’re free on bond. The judge, who is a black woman and a Clinton appointee, didn’t buy the Feds’ argument. That should tell you a lot.
UPDATE 5/6: A three-judge panel of the 6th Appellate Circuit at Cincinnati has temporarily revoked the bail. Another three-judge panel of the 6th will make its final decision within days.
UPDATE 5/8: The Detroit News doesn’t say this, but reading between the lines, a U.S. Attorney on the Hutaree case may have lied to the 6th Appellate Circuit in his (what turned out to be successful) emergency motion temporarily to revoke the bond granted by the trial-level judge, the black woman mentioned above. (But not by name, which is why no link to this article.) And when I say “lie,” I mean he grossly misrepresented the bail conditions laid down by the trial level judge, making them seem not as stringent and restrictive as they really were, to fool the Appellate judges into thinking the trial level judge was letting the Hutaree people off scot-free until trial, which she did not. It may not be enough to get a mistrial on the whole kit-n-caboodle, but it might disqualify Waterstreet from participating in the prosecution going forward.
UPDATE 6/27: It’s been awhile since I had any news, but look at what someone up about ole Barbara McQuade. This isn’t mentioned here, but she was Obama’s Michigan liaison to the rather expansive Muslim community in the Detroit area. Of course, that is the least obnoxious part.
UPDATE 2/2/2011: Yeah, I know it’s been awhile. But I think we’ve found the shit disturber.
